Wednesday, December 07, 2005

"We don't torture"

Andrew Sullivan has been extensively covering the Bush Administration's weaselly attempts to claim it doesn't torture prisoners. Keep scrolling down; he's got a zillion posts on the subject. This is a terrible black blot on America's soul, the kind of wrongdoing on Bush's part that can't be justified by any amount of rhetoric.


At Thursday, December 8, 2005 at 9:14:00 AM PST, Blogger Chris DuPuis said...

I just finished a class paper on torture and interrogation. Once the prof posts it on the school website, I'll drop you a link to it.

At Saturday, December 10, 2005 at 12:25:00 AM PST, Blogger Victor said...

America doesn't have a "soul" (nor does any other nation, in case one misunderstands my point).

At Saturday, December 10, 2005 at 10:37:00 AM PST, Blogger Adam Villani said...

True, but metaphorically it does.

At Saturday, December 10, 2005 at 6:24:00 PM PST, Blogger Victor said...

Actually, not even metaphorically.

This was something that your post and my response made hit me in a way that months of angry exchanges at St. Blogs didn't. So many people were saying words to the effect of "America's better than that -- or should be." Or various versions of the "we lose the moral high ground" stance.

I just don't and cannot see it that way -- it's a cobination of being foreign-born, being a dyed-in-the-wool Realist, and having a dislike for moral pretense of every sort. I know the United States (and thus every other country) can be spoken of in the third person.

The United States is a country like any other, regardless of what it might think about civic creeds (noun chosen deliberately). The world got along fine in 1775 and should the United States be raptured up tomorrow, the world will continue. Nations have no "natural" existence, and only exist at all only to the extent of their own wiles and own power. Nations do what they must to survive, and survival is the prerequisite of all else for a nation with only a secular existence in a way it is not for an individual.


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